Founders face three real paths: grow organically, buy growth via M&A, or grow to sell. We compare time-to-impact, leadership bandwidth, capital needs, and integration load, and show how each choice affects valuation levers like margin quality, recurring revenue, and concentration risk.
In this episode, the team breaks down the decision every IT services leader wrestles with: Grow, Buy, or Grow to Sell. You’ll hear where firms typically hit operational ceilings, why acquisitions amplify your go-to-market (for better or worse), and what it takes to be truly “ready to sell.” We cover the cash and capability requirements behind each path, common traps (buying to fix sales, serial deals without integration, ignoring working capital), and a simple framework to choose based on time horizon, risk tolerance, and valuation goals. Whether you’re building toward a premium exit or debating your next add-on, you’ll walk away with practical steps to drive multiple expansion now.
Three paths, three realities
Grow (organic): sharpen ICP, offers, pricing power, utilization, and pipeline discipline.
Buy (inorganic): clear thesis, cultural fit, day-0/30/90 integration plan, and post-close GTM.
Grow to sell: clean financials/QofE-ready, recurring mix, concentration reduction, leadership bench.
Decision drivers: time horizon, leadership bandwidth, cost of capital, integration capacity, risk profile.
Valuation levers: recurring revenue %, margin quality, growth durability (Rule of 40/45), customer concentration, integration track record.
Common pitfalls: buying to “fix” sales, underestimating change management and working capital, skipping playbooks.
Playbooks that travel: discovery→close process, delivery runbook, ICP x offer matrix, integration day-0/30/90, KPI cadence.
Outcome framing: optionality done right = two good outcomes (keep growing or transact at a premium).
Thinking about building, buying, or prepping for exit? Revenue Rocket has led hundreds of IT services transactions and integrations. If you’re weighing the path (or want a sanity check on the math) let’s talk: info@revenuerocket.com
KEY TAKEAWAYS
Acquisitions magnify GTM—they don’t fix it.
Operational maturity decides whether you stall at ceilings or scale past them.
If premium exit is the goal, optimize recurring mix, margins, and concentration now.
Model post-close working capital and integration costs, not just purchase price.
“Grow to sell” is a discipline game: clean books, durable pipeline, and leadership redundancy.
RELATED EPISODES
Questions to Ask before you Consider an M&A initiative. Listen now >>
All Roads Lead to M&A. Listen now >>
Episode 90: Selling in vs Selling Out. Listen now >>
Episode XX: Rule of 45. Listen now >>
Shoot the Moon – Episode 233: Grow, Buy, or Grow to Sell
00:00 | Mike
Hello, and welcome to this week's. Shoot the Moon podcast broadcasting live and direct from revenue rocket world headquarters here in bloomington, Minnesota. Thanks for tuning in for those of you that know us and even those of you that don't revenue rocket is the premier M a advisors to tech enabled services companies worldwide. With me today. Are my partners, matt Lockhart and Ryan Burnett. Welcome guys.
26:00 | Matt
Thank you. Mike. Been away for a couple of weeks but listened to, you know, some of the things that you guys were doing. Good stuff. Great to be back and I think a great subject today, Ryan.
43:00 | Ryan
Yeah, great to have you back here, matt. You know, we always talk about things that are important to owners of it services firms. And one of the things that we have seen a lot in this year as well as just as we've been around has been really this big question between we get a lot of questions. Should I be growing my firm just organically? Should I be growing my firm inorganically through inorganic growth? Or the third option? Should I take a look at taking on investment and growing from there? So I really want to tackle this topic of growth or what we would call sell to grow and how that really impacts an it services owner today. And how you think about your growth over the next few years. So, Mike, why don't you get us started? When we mentioned the word grow, what does that really mean to an it services firm beyond just adding revenue?
01:43:00 | Mike
Yeah, I think it's an interesting question. Ryan growth is something that when… you think about building value in a business growth is really in an it services company, is really about adding and growing profit, right? You certainly want to grow top line as well. But no points for what we call unprofitable growth or declining profit in a growing enterprise. You really have to be focused on how do we become and stay in the top quartile band of profitability of our peers and really our revenue. And when you think about indexing value in an it services company, it's almost always based on a multiple of profit and EBITDA. And so when you think about these three options, you know, really it becomes a question of what's the right path for you and how do you ultimately get to growth… of profit in a meaningful way to help you get to your goals?
02:52:00 | Ryan
Great, Mike. And we're going to we'll, break down each section here. So, matt, when you think about that second path, can you just tell us a little bit about inorganic growth and just help us define what is inorganic growth? And how is that different from organic growth?
03:08:00 | Matt
Yeah. Well, I mean organic growth is you're doing it on your own inorganic growth is you are looking at making acquisitions in addition to having your organic, you know, growth plan and, you know, one of the things. So it's pretty easy, right? Think organic on my own, right? Organically built inorganic through using acquisitions to grow. And I think that one of the things and you've probably heard this before if you've listened to a few of these is the best companies out there. Do both of these things, right? Is they have great strategic go to market organic growth capability. But they're also always looking to grow inorganically or grow through making the appropriate acquisitions. And so, you know, important to sort of think about that and frame that for this conversation that, you know, really top quartile big, you know, companies do both of these things.
04:26:00 | Ryan
Absolutely. And it's been a huge focus of ours is helping companies grow through running these buy side programs in which we're going to help that kickstart that inorganic effort to really help a company go to hit those growth profiles. And then ultimately again, we're just setting this thing up here. So Mike, help me understand that we position this as sell to grow. And I'm wondering maybe it was more sell in to grow. If you listen to some of our other podcasts, it comes a little bit more important. So Mike, what are just… help us understand in plain English? What does that sell in or sell to grow mean to it services owners?
05:14:00 | Mike
Yeah, sure thing. Rand. So, you know, I think what happens with it services owners, if you've run a successful business is that it starts to get bigger than you can capitalize yourself. So, you know, one thing that we know is that most of our clients and most it services business owners, their business is their single largest personal asset. And as those businesses continue to scale and grow, the amount of capital that might be needed to grow them inorganically or through acquisition becomes… you know, it becomes exceptionally large and you oftentimes need a capital partner if you want to continue on that growth trajectory. Fortunately, there's a method to do that we have certainly facilitated with a lot of our clients which is called a recapitalization or selling in where you're going to get a capital partner. Oftentimes this is a private equity firm who's trying to deploy capital and tech services. And certainly there's plenty of those guys out there and they want to put their capital to work in a sort of a high return, you know, return on cash sort of business, one that has good cash flow, good recurring revenue, good repeat revenue. And so, in those situations, especially if you're you know, selling into a private equity firm to be what is called a platform where you're going to be business that gets it gets funded with additional capital to do acquisitions and you run it to grow it, you sell a part of your equity and roll a part of your equity into a new corporation. Where, you're the assets of your business are the largest. In essence. If you're a platform, all of the assets of new coal or new corporation. And then with that capital partner, you go out and acquire additional businesses to tuck in to your business. So it's a way to de, risk your own position. It's a way to as we say, take chips off the table or get some cash for your existing equity now and to, you know, roll equity forward while you continue to work in the business and do additional acquisitions and grow organically for us. What we'll call a secondary transaction where the all up company when you reach your goals together with your capital partner is subsequently sold.
07:53:00 | Ryan
Mike, I think that's a great definition. And matt is the same with the inorganic growth. So that grow, let's say grow at the pace that's appropriate. M, a growth engine we'll dig into that next is growing utilizing some select acquisitions. And that third category is you're actually going to raise some money with a capital partner and it's not going to be an exit. It's going to be that recapitalization to, take a lead with a capital partner to really enhance growth as well. So, the third stool there. So let's dig into that organic playbook, you know, we've spent a lot of time with it services firms and how they can grow. And one of the things we oftentimes look at is that rule of 45 and that helps us understand the profit and revenue metrics of a company combined. They should be about 45. Matt, can you help me out? Just understand. Let's look at that rule of 45 for just a second, and then help me understand, you know, what are some other ways that companies should consider just organic growth in the it services space?
09:08:00 | Matt
Yeah. So, yeah, rule of 45, what is your percentage of net income profit against total revenue? Right? And then second is how much did you grow year over year? What was your percentage of growth, year over year? And, you know, if you're at 45, boy, you're doing great, you know, and if you're above 45 could be tough to sustain that. If you are at 40, doesn't mean you're running a good business, right? But there could be opportunities to optimize. I think that the biggest thing is we're not going to spend too much time on all the levers of organic growth here, but that you are able to demonstrate that you actually have the sustained operational capability to grow your business. That means new client acquisition. That means continuing to build upon the value of your service, your services. Yeah, call it, your overall service playbook needs to continue to expand. So, you know, all of those things need to be in place, the maturity and the size of your organization, both your sales and marketing and go to market organization as well as obviously your delivery organization for a services firm. All of these really need to be put into place. Now, you know what's interesting is again, very best firms are demonstrate that they're doing this. It can, it then comes out in the data, right? Net income, you know, year over year, profit or increase in sales, et cetera. But it's also, the things that need to be put in place to be a strategic acquirer, right? And, and yes, looking at acquisitions as a means to build and improve those capabilities is absolutely a good strategy, but you certainly need to have a foundation of those things in place to be a good candidate to be a platform and effectively manage and execute acquisitions. Well?
11:40:00 | Ryan
So that growth engine that you're talking about, matt, is that foundation for kind of everything else. Once you have your engine in place for gaining new customers and growing your revenue, and importantly growing the profit, with that revenue, it has to be centrally or it has to be really well run. It has to, you have to execute really well there. Mike, I know many times we've seen companies that they build a great growth engine, but oftentimes they get stalled out when they hit some critical benchmarks. We're seeing kind of that getting over that five to 6,000,000 dollar mark. When you're a very small company, it can be tough getting over that 12 to 15,000,000 dollar plateau can be tough. And, and getting over that 25,000,000 dollar plateau, it could be tough too. I'm curious what kind of barriers do people have in the it services world that prohibits that growth? And why do they get some of those barriers?
12:45:00 | Mike
Well, as matt mentioned, a lot of this has to do with operational maturity, especially on those smaller we call them growth ceilings. You know, what got you to five to 6,000,000 isn't necessarily going to get you to 15,000,000 and isn't going to get you to 25 to 30,000,000, right? Those are the businesses have to have a different level of operational maturity to break through and sell and grow into those additional revenue banding. And I think in some ways, you know, they need to have the time to make the operational maturity changes to become more operationally mature. They may have to have different staff. They may have to have just different strategy, right? To get to those new growth areas. The thing that's important about that is that it takes time to do that. You know, we all only have a limited amount of time, right on this earth. So, you know, you want to be able to accelerate that if you can. And you can accelerate that. You can literally think about M a as a way to buy time, right? You can, you can accelerate past some of these growth ceilings by acquiring companies that may have some components or staff that will help you become more operationally mature. You can get to a new level of growth and profit through these combinations where, you know, one plus one equals three where you're better together than apart. All those things are sort of things that M a advisors such as revenue rocket, talk about enabling for their clients to help them get to a new level. And as that number keeps going up and those acquisitions get bigger and bigger, the requirements for capital get higher and higher. And that's you know, certainly there's a business case to be made to have a good strong organic… growth engine and operations business, you know, operating business and at all levels but, you know, oftentimes a client will use that method to break through some of those class ceilings. But also to begin to get to their number as we often call it. Most entrepreneurs in our industry have a number in their head about where they want to grow their business, to facilitate either a recap or an exit. And what M a allows you to do on the buy side whether you're doing it on your own or you're doing it with a capital partner over time as you get bigger. Is that allows you, to buy time and to get there more quickly?
15:32:00 | Ryan
Yeah, I think, and that's exactly. I think where we want to take this next is when we, when a firm really realizes that you've maximized your organic growth, you know, matt, when is the time to start to look for M a as that growth target? If organic growth is where you prove your model, how do… you start to look at incorporating that next stage of looking to buy a firm? What kind of maturity do you have to get there? And what does that M a growth engine look like?
16:07:00 | Matt
Yeah, I don't know that there's an exact right. It's tough to say there's exact timelines… or numbers that exactly need to be in place, et cetera. Obviously to Mike's, point, and we've seen this people can get over their skis, right? And what I mean by that, is they may look at acquisitions that put a fair amount of stress on the balance sheet, right? They're they're potentially being over leveraged et cetera. Et cetera. So, there clearly needs to be a foundation of earnings in place and the history of those earnings in place and sort of the repeatability because the organization has been built up. I think that when that is the case, you know, to Mike's, point, talk to an M, a advisor. We'd love to talk to you about this. Are you in a good position to be able to start making acquisitions? And then, it… then sort of gets down to how are you going to get it done right? Financially? Do you have the team in place to incorporate additional acquisitions to be able to integrate those acquisitions in successfully? So financing? And do you have the team? And then have you really built the strategy, right? Have you built the strategy as to what is the purpose of the acquisitions that you are, that you're looking to make? Is it to expand your serviceable? You know, market area? Is it to fill some potential gaps in your service line and, or extend your service line out? Is it to, you know, expand geographically? All of those things to be able to start to define that strategy to that you can then execute and target appropriately and then go get, you know, go get deals done in a strategic way that is going to enable that force multiple that Mike was talking about. And, and so, you know, and we've one of our recent clients is a great, you know, sort of playbook for this which, you know, they had gotten to an appropriate size, they had the financial backing and the financial readiness to do so. And because they had gotten to that appropriate size and they had enough of the pieces in place, this managed service provider went and made a number of their own acquisitions and we helped them, right? And then, you know, when they got to that appropriate inflection point, they then recapitalized with a private equity partner. So, you know, it is, there's no exact answer but you certainly need to make sure that you've got the financial and operational readiness to do so, and that, then that is the case if you're going to partner up and recapitalize and, or, if you're going to sort of roll your own, and go make some of your own acquisitions.
19:37:00 | Ryan
And in this stage, it feels like it's it can be trepidatious to jump right in. And so, I think when we see clients that are catering, should I do an M a deal? I think there's a lot of readiness that needs to go into place. And we certainly help companies all the time. Understand these are the things you have to align on here's. The strategy you have to take or even a question of how big of a firm should you buy. I think there's a lot of things a company really has to make sure that they understand to go out there and to execute well, Mike, I'm just curious. Have you seen companies when they choose? OK, let's do some deals, let's do some. M a. Has there been any pitfalls when someone first just jumps into that mentality, and says, OK, I'm going to go with M a and they launch right in. So, what kind of mistakes do firms learn when they're jumping into this? Especially if they're trying to do that alone?
20:40:00 | Mike
Well, it's a long list, Ryan, you know, there's some statistics that are out there that say that you only have about a one percent chance of getting a deal done if you roll your own without an advisor. You know, we think that maybe the percentage is a little higher than that, but, you know, that's what several popular studies say. And I think the reason that is because, you know, getting M a deals done is hard, right? You know, I think it's very different from your core business. You know, I think most entrepreneurs that have built it services companies from scratch, certainly have seen a lot of adversity in building the business. And they think, hey, if we've been able to build this business, we should be able to figure out how to do an M a deal. Should we be able to find one, we should be able to convince a seller that we're a good partner and we should be able to work with our lawyer to figure it out. But there are a lot of unforeseen challenges with that theorem. And, you know, starting from, how do you even find the company and address the company that would be a good fit for you? How do you analyze them? How do you value them? How do you convince them that they should join forces with you? How do you structure a deal? How do you finance a deal? How do you negotiate the T's and C's of the deal? Which include hundreds of variables? And then, how do you leverage the advisors around accounting, tax and legal as well as your M a advisor to get the deal done. Now, the advantage that all of those advisors that you have bring to the table is they have very specific deal… experience that you don't have. And it really does take a village of those people to effectively raise your percentage of getting those deals done to be north of 50 percent. It's still a tenuous journey, right? But it's one that you dramatically increase your odds of success if you assemble a village of professionals to help you and help you further tease out and vet all the things I just mentioned and ultimately help you negotiate and transact that deal to successful conclusion.
23:01:00 | Ryan
And Mike, pardon me, matt, when you hear some of this, Mike, I think you nailed some of the challenges that are there. It seems like the opportunities do come in increased growth. You've got some really nicely increased service lines. Your customer path, M a here hit the stage. It is a really solid tactic. And growing again, growing alone can be difficult. And part of that is just the capital requirements that are considered… can be considerable with M a. And so, matt, I was just curious if there's anything a firm should be thinking about in this strategy of utilizing perhaps a banking partner or loan balance sheet, or if they other items to go fund the deal, and how that could matter versus our third category to talk to of kind of sell to grow? What should firms be thinking about from their financial capacity to start to execute and to hit some of those growth plans inclusive of utilizing M a?
24:19:00 | Mike
Yeah, yeah.
24:22:00 | Matt
I think under this premise that you can use an acquisition inorganic growth strategy in addition to your organic capability to go faster and to be better. That doesn't mean and oftentimes you can do that before you recapitalize or you sell to grow. And so, you know, are you going to fund that all through your gift, that much cash on your balance sheet to be able to fund an acquisition? How much of the cash versus a bank financing scenario? And again… we're not going to go too deep but you can't get over your skis, you got to be able to service the debt and have the confidence and the continued growth in your business to be able to be servicing debt in that capacity. And that's different than the team that you know, Mike is talking about in terms of that team of professionals to then help you execute your organic growth strategy. But, you know, I think that, in looking at and having a good again, once you've gotten to a point, you've built the strategy, you've built the financing plan, part of that building the financing plan that you're talking about here, Ryan is, who is, you know, who is your, who's your third party financer, who is your bank? That you're going to have in place? What type of debt facility? And I think that you know, the big difference between this and in addition to probably size maturity scale this type of period. And in that organic inorganic growth strategy is you're not selling any of the assets of your business, necessarily, right? You're not selling a percentage of your business. When we talk about recapitalizing or selling to grow, you are selling an aspect or a minority or a majority of your business to a capital partner. And in sort of this intermediary phase that we talk about with inorganic growth, you don't need to be doing that. You can finance deals in a way that you don't need to be doing that you may choose to if you find the right firm to buy. And you really like, that team, you may choose to relinquish some equity as an incentive piece, but you don't need to. And so, having that banking relationship in place, that financing relationship that enables you, to lend the appropriate amount of money is absolutely critical, right? Right.
27:12:00 | Ryan
And matt, I think it is a great setup, for where to go next and to go back. That that third path here that we're talking about that sell to grow or sell in to grow. That's it's where founders can cash in and level up at the same time. Let's kind of dig into how that actually works. Mike, can you help me just understand simply what a what's what is a recapitalization? And why is that different from someone who is selling out?
27:41:00 | Mike
Yeah. It's it's an important distinction. So, I think recapitalizations are best when you're an owner or leader who's built the business is looking to get to the next level of growth and profit but sharing the risk. And so in that case, you're going to go find the right capital partner that aligns to your interest or growth of the business or growth vision for the business. They're going to buy a portion of your equity, usually a majority stake anywhere from, you know, 51 to 80 percent of your existing equity. And then you're going to do what's called a roll or you're going to roll equity into this new co like we talked about before this new corporation that has all of the assets of your business in it. And in some cases, you're joining an existing platform for which you'll play executive role. In some cases, you become the platform and that's an interesting distinction, two different sort of use cases. And if… you're joining an existing platform, it's there's pros and cons to that. It's usually more well established. It's on its growth trajectory. You're a complement to that growth strategy. And you're likely closer to your exit, your second bite at the apple as they call it that equity roll exit. You're closer to it, which means maybe it'll happen in a year or two years, or three years, maybe four. But you're closer to it whereas you come in as a platform and you're going to go buy other companies to tuck in. You're probably five to seven years from your exit, you're going to likely be leading that effort, in the, as a platform and the other companies you're going to attract to come in to be complementary to help you get to your goal and ultimate exit. And that's what we call selling in, right? You're going to likely be involved with that business, whether you're a platform or a tuck in kind of the language you use in the industry, but you're going to be joining them for a while and contributing, as a player with them. If you're selling out, you're likely looking to exit the business and some orderly transition. You're likely looking to quote unquote cash out of your equity through some mechanism, whether that's all cash or close or some sort of a seller note or, you know, pay over time plan that you know, a buyer may use in addition to cash or close. And you're looking to transition. Over an orderly period out of the business. Now, that doesn't preclude private equity from acquiring your business particularly as a tuck in because… oftentimes people can sell out and be part of a roll up tuck in and may even choose to roll equity in that environment if you have confidence in the leadership that's acquiring your business and that capital partner. But, but the main distinction if you're selling in and you're going to continue working for up to another five to seven years at a minimum, could be longer and you might go through multiple capital partners. While you're working with that business. We certainly have worked with clients where that's been the case they've gone through, you know, 15 years and three capital partners as they've continued to grow and scale before they ultimately exited as a leader in that business. And so, you know, but in selling, in case you're going to continue to stand for a while and drive that business as a leader, or a key role in the executive leadership sell out, your, you're going to be providing an orderly transition and doing something else after you exit.
31:42:00 | Ryan
Really nice job of explaining this partnership here with private equity. Matt. I just would love, to get one comment in this area before we move into kind of how to decide. But what's the real appeal of founders, who do want to take this approach where they keep building but they're de, risking that personally?
32:06:00 | Matt
Well, I mean, you know, Mike talked to, the speed aspect of it and you know, that can be really appealing. You know, for some founders, they may say, see that, you know, they really like the maybe they've done a couple of their own acquisitions and, they really personally, they love that, right? I mean, that's super personally fulfilling to be able to increase their team size in chunks as opposed to, you know, ones and twos and, you know, it's personally professionally fulfilling for them. And they, and they recognize that man, we could do three, four acquisitions a year as opposed to, you know, one acquisition every three to four years, right? And, and being able to go faster, I think that also, you know, let's face it. We've all as we're growing businesses, and we've all done it. You can use help people have been there before and being able to partner with the right partner can be super valuable in a founder's own personal and professional development. And so there's a variety of reasons where it's a different chapter. But it can be a super exciting chapter. You know, oftentimes what we hear the most in terms, of some founders who have chosen not to do this is, you know, sort of this fear of relinquishing control which, you know, in a way, yeah, I guess that there's an aspect of that. But I think oftentimes that when they, you know, the successful CEOS and founders that have done this, they've they recognize that they just had a different team to influence. It's. Not, you know, as, any, anybody who's started or led a business knows they only have so much control anyways, right? And so oftentimes that can be some somewhat of irrational, you know, thinking and, or just inexperienced thinking to put too much fear into that loss of control piece. So, I think it's it can be exciting. It's got to meet, you know, sort of personal goals. You get to partner with some really good people. I often say to people, it's you know, usually a pretty good idea, to join up with smart money, you know, because smart money is wants to, you know, grow, and make more and really make the most of an investment. So, you know, there's a lot that goes into it.
35:19:00 | Ryan
Yeah. I think it's critical that picking the right partner has more than just the check or the check side. And bringing the right partner to the table can really help accelerate what we see in the other options here. Between buy and organic growth. You're going to have operators that help you increase your organic growth. And you're also going to have in many cases a corporate development team that can help grow inorganically as well. So you get a great combination when you have more than just you at the table. So Mike, as we look at kind of these topics and we look at the questions that are going through someone's mind if you're a CEO listening to this right now, how do you start to pick what path is right for you between grow, buy or sell to grow? So, Mike, I'll just have to start it off here. What should CEOS ask themselves before picking these paths?
36:18:00 | Mike
Well, I think, you know, a lot of that has to do with how big your vision is and how much time you want to be working, right? You know, both of those things are somewhat interrelated and, you know, I think it's a very personal decision for people of all ages. But, you know, that's why I don't say depending on your age, I think it's more about how long you continue to be working in our industry is more the question because we certainly see vibrant leaders in our industry doing interesting things well into their seventies and in some cases, eighties. And likewise, we see some in their thirties and forties that want to be moving on, right? They want to be selling out. So a very personal sort of decision about that. And I think beyond that is, you know, how big is your vision? Because as the vision gets bigger, ultimately, what you're trying to build gets more prolific, broader reach bigger firm. It's very likely that you're going to need to have a capital partner to reach that vision. And, you know, if you're selling in and you have a lot of like what we call gas in the tank, a lot of energy for the business. A lot of passion, you know, selling… to grow is… a good option. Get a capital partner, go out and do some acquisitions, learn some things from your capital partner and advisors that help you to grow through more aggressive acquisitive growth. You know, certainly be able to do that. I think your timing to your ultimate exit is also really important, you know, and how much risk you want to take also plays a role. You may decide that, you know, the organic growth path is best for you for a period of years. It is certainly much slower. But I think if you execute well, it's one that involves less risk or at least less perceived risk by you because, you know, that path you've been on that path likely for some time. So, you know, where I come to on this is that it's a very personal decision like, hey, do we grow organically to a certain level? And then when we get to that point, we decide to either recap or exit… completely, sell out or sell in as we'll use those terms. Do we get more aggressive with doing small deals? So we can quote unquote buy time to get to an ultimate recap or an exit, sell in or sell out? Or do we just immediately go to a place where we're going to do bigger acquisitions, kind of grow more and prolifically through acquisition with a capital partner. We're certainly here to help you figure that out and be a sounding board for all those options. We've seen and had these conversations and helped our clients hundreds of times sort of make the decision and move forward with a path. And if we can be of some assistance to you here, drop us a note at info at revenantrocket com or give us a call and we'd be happy to jump on a call and help you affect your options.
39:41:00 | Ryan
Yeah, matt, is there anything else you wanted to add to that?
39:48:00 | Matt
No, I mean, I think that Mike framed it up really well. I think that it's understanding your personal goals, understanding your personal timeline, understanding where your business is at and your ability to continue to grow the business as they say, you're either growing or you're dying, right? And if you're meeting some inflection points then, and you have that sort of that fire and that desire to go faster, selling to grow and selling in can be a super viable strategy. Certainly not something that you have to do at any certain time. I think to Mike's point having your trusted advisors and including in that… spending time with an appropriately skilled and specialized M a advisor really makes a lot of sense in helping, you know, come to the, come to the right decision at the right time and where you can, you, and your team, right? That is something that we haven't talked a whole bunch about, is the ability to give your team opportunities to grow at a faster pace as well, which… is, which can be super exciting. So let's talk about it.
41:27:00 | Ryan
Thanks guys. You've been really helpful in this topic. And as we look forward, I think this is something we'll come back to and making sure that CEOS have the right decision framework for understanding what they should do based on their situation here today. You know, we're here to help firms grow by, or sell in and do that recapitalization to really hit unprecedented growth. And so as you think through M a and your strategy and your it services firm, I hope revenue rocket is someone that you can turn to ask some of these questions and to continue your growth. If you found this episode helpful here today, please like and subscribe, but also feel free to listen on any of our podcast platforms and tell a friend in your peer groups about us as well. With that, Mike, I'll turn it over to you for any close up.
42:20:00 | Mike
Great. Ryan, appreciate the dialogue guys. It was an interesting topic that hopefully our audience will find equally enlightening. So with that, we'll tie a ribbon on it for this week's. Shoot the Moon podcast. We encourage you to tune in next time when we'll unpack additional topics of relevance for the M&A universe in the it services world as a reminder. We are the M&A people in our space, and certainly look forward to sharing some of our knowledge and experience with you as you chart your own course around M a in your tech enabled services company. So with that, take care, make it a great week and look forward to having you tune in next time so long.